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Sabrine Assem
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
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Democracy --> Development
July 21, 2005 @ 03:08 AM
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Last session i stopped and thought alot about the connection between Democracy and Development. I was surprised to find out that many experts think that democracy doesn't promote development. Well, if we took Egypt as an example there was never real democracy in the country but also no steps towards real development were taken. I guess, it's corruption that plays the main role here. We have had a corrupted system since...i don't actually know, i guess since hundreds of years. But if we thought about it deeply we'll find out that corruption occurs mostly in non-democratic systems as the people have no right to evaluate the performance of the government (u know accountancy is very important here if we wanted to eradicate massive corruption)- sometimes it happenes that a non-democratic country like UAE or China takes huge steps towards development but there's always a danger of decline if the people (honest, good people) in the system changed and other people (maybe corrupted) took their places. The system will allow these people to begin their destructive journey and the citizens won't be able to change anything abt it bec there's no democracy.
yalla that's all 3ashan i gtg now - tell me wht u think abt it
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Doaa Mohamed Abd El-Salam
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Re: Democracy --> Development
July 21, 2005 @ 03:34 AM
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i, too, believe that democracy is an important factor for development. first, it enriches any desicion- making because there it allows for a variety of suggestions from different people of different experiences and that is surely better than having one absolute voice which might be wrong bec. we are humans after all. moreover, as u r saying if it is a democracy- a greek word meaning the rule of the people, then a number less than the majority might be oppressed. ofcourse , that is better than any dictatorial regime that, more often than not, serves its own interests. finally, i would say that it is one of the basic tenets of Islam. in our Shar'iah it is called : "shura", which means considering the opinions of the others. personally, if i take part in any activity and my leader is dictatorial, i immediately quit. thank God that Injy- my news lettre leader- is democratic!
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abdelrahman
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Re: Democracy --> Development
July 21, 2005 @ 09:25 AM
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Iam very happy to share my openion in such great depate like this one.
from my study and reading i think that i have another concept of the democracy, i think that democracy is not only the rule of the majority ,but i think realy that the real democracy is to maintain the very riets and leberties of the minority vis-avis the majority.
so that from my point of veiw - and it could be wrong - its not democratic the country that the rular in it is just 50%+1 of the people, but also you must reserve for the other 49% of the society its role in the directing the rular in the society.therefore lots of douts can be throwen upon the american masked democracy.
on the other hand the connection between the democracy and development,however rational and axcepected, but we have seen lots of nations emerganced and developed without any democracy .its strange fact but it should be studied well for ex. mohamed ali; however his system collapsed finally in 1840 but no body can deny that he made adeveloped strong country before some major countries -now- like japan with 40 years.
i think its in these cases that the loyal will of such rulars to make aglory and to rule the world is the couse of such development.
although,i beleive -stongly- in the nation and beleive that geving any nation cebabilitiy of decision making is always (pro) or for such nation .
thats all but want to know if i am rieght so keep in tuch .
thanks.
abdel-rahman
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Sabrine Assem
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
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Re: Democracy --> Development
July 22, 2005 @ 06:30 AM
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i'm v. happy bec of ur replies - abdel rahman, don't u think that the reason why development stopped after mohamed ali is that another one came who didn't care that much abt development - it's v. bad to depend on one person to achieve development and like i said democracy is much needed in order to have accountability which will lead to development - u cannot take the risk and depend on some people without being able to take actions if they messed things up - mohamed ali was in many aspects a good ruler but with his very same system other came and destroyed egypt - hope u got my point 
bas surely u're 100% right abt the duty of the ruler and the government towards the whole society including people who didn't vote for him
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Injy
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Re: Democracy --> Development
July 23, 2005 @ 04:29 AM
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Thank you Miss. Doaa that is because a wonderful creative team 
I agree so far on what you have been saying, it is should not be a system based on good people, so after they are gone, then what???
Speaking of Japan, guess what, in Japan, as I have witnessed myself and was extremely astonished, there is not such democracy as such. But they have an excellent systems of senior, meaning those who are seniors are the ones who are taking all the decisions and those below them, they call them juniors, are just followers, and have not witnessed anyone, just anyone, objecting to a single decision when the Senior is taking it. And guess what they are extremely developed!!!! It is the "Respect" and "The Family Ties" that develop Japan. Do you think the same can be applicable to Egypt and other Arab Countries? Can we have the same system of senior respect and the family ties to make it developed and follow the Japanese example or not?
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Sabrine Assem
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Re: Democracy --> Development
July 23, 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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all i know about japan is whenever a disaster happens there like the one of the metro for example then the minister commits suicide or at least resign - there's a great feeling of responsibility there which we'll never have - why? it's simple: because of the bad governance - we need good governance and that will never be achieved without democracy bec most people here - based on the reality - when they become powerful they become corrupted as well bec in the Arab World: Power=Corruption - why? bec the people - el sha3b - r sleeping in honey and they do not stand up for their rights and get their rightful share fel power (inclusiveness as u know is one main factor in good governance) - if there's no inclusiveness there's going to be no accountability - as i said in my first post our main problem in the arab world is CORRUPTION - corruption comes from the power that is mainly distributed among very few ones of the whole population.
We need to think now about the solution - how could we have a democratic system? how could we change the current situation? i'm sure that will need alot of time, hard work and sincere dedication from people who really believe in our need to have good governance in this country and in the arab world as a whole - we (=everyone who believes in reform) have to talk to people, to tell them abt their rights, to tell them abt their duty towards themselves - we have to be powerful, powerful with the backup of millions of arabs in order to press and press hard and harder to achieve something and change the system - it's a long journey but the end of it will be pretty, i hope.
this nation needs pioneers - it needs leaders that enlighten the people and give them courage and fill them with determination not some fake leaders who lead them to their deaths and fill their minds with destructive ideas concerning their "holy" obligation to kill innocent people
it's amazing how any extremist can drive hundreds of thousends and thousends of young arabs towards their deaths and how no intellectual can drive them to life - we live in a real disaster, a real misery and we won't wake up till we realize that our problems r mainly internal ones - i know most of the arabs hate the USA and think that it's behind every evil..etc but didn't u ever think that the ones who blow themselves in order to kill others r arabs and muslims - and that they were filled with ideas abt the jihad against non-believers..etc - how could someone convince these young muslims to do such thing? there must be wrong issues here, among us, in our way of thinking, in the religious speech, in our way of life.
i got off-topic somehow but it's because of the current events we're having now - Anyway i must go now - God bless Egypt and the whole world - God bless humanity and certainly : DOWN WITH TERRORISM AND EXTREMISM
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Injy
Joined: Jul 13, 2002
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Re: Democracy --> Development
July 24, 2005 @ 02:09 AM
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-- I will tell you one of the Japanese sense of responsability:
you remember last year panic over Bird Flu, a Japanese young farmer found out that his farm had bird flu among a number of his chicken, anyway- he seems not to be a real Japanese- and he did not report to the Ministry- which would immediately act upon the report, unlike ours that would simply say "Eveything is just more than perfect!!". Later on, the active Ministry found about his hiding the truth and the propability of his irreponsabile action that would have led to the death of many Japanese. They arrested him. His Father and Mother committed suicide, leaving behind an apology letter to the Japanese people for the irresponsible action of their immoral son!!!!!! That is a very true story. They just could not stand up how much they failed the society.
P.S. I am citing this as an example of extreme responsability towards the society, and I am not here to show off the Japanese people, and undermine ours, because simply reality is for everyone to realise.
-- "some fake leaders who lead them to their deaths and fill their minds with destructive ideas concerning their "holy" obligation to kill innocent people it's amazing how any extremist can drive hundreds of thousends and thousends of young arabs towards their deaths and how no intellectual can drive them to life" ... True, being intellectual entails you to think, to think you need to have knowledge as your base, to have knowledge you have to read, and to reflect... And that is too much difficultttttttttttt, so far more easier to go up for the explosions!
-- So we have the following vicious circle:
Ignorant citizens like their passivity, or let me say they are used to it for years, and so reluctant to change + majority of corrupt governmental officials + weird ideologoes + young people- the only remaining hope- losing their identity= Retarded Country.... But looking in those terms, then it is HOPELESS. But I believe it is not, and I do not really know why!
-- I have also an incident to share with you. The taxi driver in the morning was saying "shofty ely 7asal fee Sharm El Sheikh.... Ady el nawawy ely Iran 3amala tegarboh fee khal2 Allah!!!!! Dah ana leya wa7ed 2areby henak kalmtoh 3ala tool we 2olteloh enzel men henak we seeb el kafara dool!!!" Can you imagine my astonishment!!!!!
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yehia moh.ramadan
Joined: Jul 20, 2005
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Re: Democracy --> Development
July 24, 2005 @ 06:12 AM
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well i guess that as u said that there is no dev or dem had taken palce due to the corruption and since the death of moh ali and we r not that progressing however who said that democracy isnt a sort of devloping i guess that if u r to devlop u ve to ve a system and to ve a system to choose the best which is democracy take greamny 4 example after the world war 2 we ll find that it not the dev that took place but they tried to put some system. bill gates him self when he started to put microsoft as a co it was a sysetm for thre dev so dont u think its not reasnoble to calim dev with no dem.
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