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abdelrahman

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 20, 2005 @ 06:40 AM

i think realy that its too important issue, and i want anmy body who read my viewpoint to rationally think before react.
i think that any muslim is realy -in way or another- responsible about what tacks place at Iraq and phalastine.
all of us will be asked befor Allah what he did for those muslims allover the world who suffer and killed every day but every moment.
Realy what did we do for those people is it some demonistrations , or some words we say against the invasion or what .
is it enough will that make us innosent , i dont think so ithink that the issue is more than some words or acts we do even with out loyality.
each of us read about killing lots of muslims each day and all the matter he will get littel sad if he was loyal.
i dont say go to war but isay that every one of us has aheavy responsability which is to try to reform himself then his society and not to wait for SALAH ELDEEN as he is born every day between us but he get killed or loughed at him .
every one of U has to work hard each in his/her feild to wake the peopleto help our nation to cross its crises and then allah will for sure help us
(ان الله لا يغير ما بقوم حتى يغيروا ما بأنفسهم )
thanks

Sabrine Assem

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 21, 2005 @ 02:47 AM

well i guess that before having a duty towards other Muslims in the world we need first to feel our duty towards the citizens in our own country or even smaller in our city, street, house - it's just that we're not concentrating enough on our own internal issues while we couldn't help the external affairs that are basically connected with others either - the people of palestine and iraq should fight for their rights and get them - we have first our own sufferings, there're alot of poor people in Egypt, people who got no expectations in life but to fulfill the very basic needs any living creature has - u know i watched this movie: Sayed El 3atefy which is a very silly movie btw but i stopped at one point and thought alot - there was a scene where Abla Kamel and Tamer were protesting against Israel and then came an old poor lady and asked Abla Kamel a thoughtful question: she asked: howwa ento hena 3ashan el ma3ashat?!! abla answered: la2 e7na hena 3ashan israel - the lady replied: ana kont fakrako hena 3ashan el ma3ashat 3ashan homa mesh 3ayzin yedohalna - it's simple, i thought to myself: is it not more useful to protest against the high prices, the low wages, the pollution...the government - is it not more useful to protest and show some solidarity towards our internal affairs - i'm not saying we shouldn't support the others but i'm saying that by strenghen ourselves first and working on our major internal problems we could have a much more influence when we protest or do some actions against what we believe is wrong in other places like Iraq and Palestine.

that's my point of view - i'm glad bec it's my first post in the forum - waiting for ur replies

Doaa Mohamed Abd El-Salam

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 21, 2005 @ 03:58 AM

i agree with u abd-el rahman. i think that the fact that we are muslims entitles us to help our muslim brothers anywhere under the sun.our prophet-peace be upon him says: "the believers in their mutual kindness, compassion and sympathy are just like one body. when one of the limbs suffers, the whole body responds to it with wakefulness and fever." the second thing is that the arabs' interests are inter-related, and so even if we don't feel a spiritual commitment to them, we should calculate it in terms of economic and political interests. finally, i would say that even if those in Iraq were not muslims, i would still support them spiritually and practically for, in the end, we are all humans.

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abdelrahman

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 21, 2005 @ 07:03 AM

hi nousha
iam happy to be with us in the forum exepresing ur veiw but i want to ask u question and to tack a notice :
my notice is thats very strange that u talked about the muslims strangly... u saied we -as egyptians- and them -as another nationalities- and its too wrong the muslims is one nation cant say we and them , we all r muslims and the propht mercy up on him said (he won't be a muslim who never get interested in the muslims matters), moreover i wamt to ask u question :
which is more important for god's sake : the ma3ashat in egypt / the poor people in egypt or those men killed ,women rapped cheldrin been homless in iraq and phalastine and other various places???

simply we cant think like that ( we protest for our problems and let them strugel for their owen problem ) i think it would be a selfishness and favour-dening for those people .
and also that film with such scene more rooting such sefishness in our youth so we should refuse these concepts and try to spreed the truth between the youth.
thanks.
abdel-rahman

abdelrahman

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 22, 2005 @ 02:20 AM

dear nousha :
i realy think that u didnt get my point of veiw you reapeted the same mistack : you said their land!!! its not their land it is OUR LAND and the burden of geting it back is upon us upon all muslims not only the phalastinians and the iraqi people .
i dont refuse working harder to be stronger but i encourage that and i said that more than 5 times and reread my posts .
but all what i care is to reorganise our perioreties. what the most important then the less important.
thats my point of veiw and i think we are not that diffrant,we almost the same so thank you for ur interest.
thanks .
abdel-rahman

Injy

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 22, 2005 @ 06:02 AM

Nousha,
I totally agree with you.
" i guess that before having a duty towards other Muslims in the world we need first to feel our duty towards the citizens in our own country or even smaller in our city, street, house - it's just that we're not concentrating enough on our own internal issues while we couldn't help the external affairs that are basically connected with others either" ... That is pretty much true, and Abdl Raham nousha said "before having...". The scene you shared with us, it tells us a lot, there is something called "priority", I need to take care of my very inner surroudnings and then go for the wider one. This does not entail that I forget about the other Arabs and Human Beings all over the globe.
Abdelraham,
There are so many points to be tackled:
- Why are you limiting your address to only "muslims"?? Are not the Chritsians at the first place, and the Jewish in the second place are sharing the same land- Arab Lands I mean- and same nationality with us???? Why that somehow narrow-mindedness which at the long run will direct the whole nation in a terribly so risky path of "discrimination" against other religious groups?? It is the duty of every human being to defend his race?? And that was one of the points of "The Other" article written by Moataz. So, come on, we do not want to exclude anyone by saying that is only a muslim duty.
- Tell you what better to do: do we as Arabs- and I would not say muslims, because I do not want to exclude any other religious groups- have done anything so far to win the respect of the World that goes on their misinterpretation- thanks to the muslims themselves who do this, I am against by the way any theories of conspiracies because it is just "easy" for the reluctant to reflect to find out true answers??????? Tell me how many of those who go on demonstrations know in details the history of Iraq and Palestine??? How many of them would stand up for a well-runned agument or a debate with any foreign scholar about Palestine or Iraq?? Do they know accurate dates, facts and history? I assume that the answer is already known "NOPE" for the majority.
- "u saied we -as egyptians- and them -as another nationalities- and its too wrong the muslims is one nation cant say we and them " ... Abdel Raham, again you are excluding other religious groups. Also, in discussions, you would say from my point of view or well I disagree, not "it is too wrong", remember it is only your OPINION, and have to accept The Other.
- "the ma3ashat in egypt / the poor people in egypt or those men killed ,women rapped cheldrin been homless in iraq and phalastine and other various places???" ... Those who would not get their rights in their country, can turn into a destructive force, most probably end up into a CIVIL WAR and then get also men and women killed.

Best of Luck and Keep the Spirit Up,

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Sabrine Assem

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 22, 2005 @ 06:46 AM

it's not selfishness - it's all about fixing internal issues before the external ones - bec as i said that will mean that u'll be stronger and more effective - ur voice is going to be heard and ur opinion will be more powerful

i'm not saying not to care about others - i guess we all (as human beings) should support anyone (regardless his religion or nationality) if he has a right that is taken from him or if he's been humiliated, killed...etc - it's our humanity here before even our religion that plays the main role bec it's natural to feel empathy and according to this feeling u go and protest (just like many in the west do)

but now we can't do more than that - protesting - the people of Iraq and Palestine r the ones who carry the heaviest responsiblity towards their land - we as i said two times before should be now more responsible towards our own country in order to become stronger and to be able to help them more effectively

Injy

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 23, 2005 @ 03:51 AM

** "Ingy if u read what i wrote u will know what i mean with piriority."... Do not assume too much, I was quoting and commenting you, so this should entail that I read your replies.
** "please concantrate : i dont refuse working or getting interest to our internal issues but i have another piriorities than u." And who said that I refuse the external help. The point in here and both of us are having different priorities and prespectives, and that does not mean that any of us has to lose his/her respect to the other saying "please concentrate", "Ingy if u read what i wrote u will know what i mean with piriority" and "if you -nousha- doesnt like this tone simply dont.. but i advice to let you from the ARY race .." ... Why you claim too much, nousha did not say anything about not liking or disliking the tone??? Hellooo, who should be re-reading the posts in here????

** Do not like much to go in a vicious discussion, nothing much is added to it. So, I will conclude the points I tackled before in case some mispreceieved it, or wish to:
1- My prioity goes for internal care, seeing educated, healthy and well-lived Egyptian citizens able to help others in need outside Egypt, if this is not to come true, nothing external can be achieved. And this does not undermine external help, it is a set of priority to me. we ely ye3zoh el beet ye7ram 3ala el game3.
2- I think in terms of Arabic including all races and religions.
3- My duty as a muslim to be a "producer" rather than a "consumer" as Dr. Zagzog pointed out today, and done for God's sake of the unproductive muslims adding nothing but destruction.
4- Personally, do not like to think in terms of the conspiracy theory, simply because it puts me down, and gives me the sense that whatever I am going to do is useless and meaningless.

Abdel Rahman, do not take the posts as something personal and each single sentence means you or commenting on you, each has different views, and this does not justify undermining the others in a tough tone.

Have a good day ya fandem,

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Sabrine Assem

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 23, 2005 @ 04:19 AM

first thanks again injy 4 ur reply - u "as always now" said wht i wanted to say smile

anyway, abdel rahman, as injy said, it's important not to take things personally and more important is not to think that ur opinion is the only right/true one - u have to understand that many people see things differently and that doesn't mean that one of them has the absolute right opinion - there are no absolute right answers or opinions -
u just see things from a different perspective and surely u're right regarding this perspective - the only thing that everyone should try is to see the whole picture and understand why there are many differences between people and the way they think.

behind every opinion there are arguments and it's important to have reasonable ones.

yalla: bas i don't quite get wht u mean by i let from the ARY race? could u pls explain?

abdelrahman

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 23, 2005 @ 05:48 AM

dear ingy: thanks for ur interest and iam very happy to log in such great argument i beleive that any argument should be targeting the truth in last lap. and be sure that i in my discusion didnt intent to hurt any body or to use a tough tone iam as u know a familior man.
and i said before to nousha that we arenot that diffrent.
i think that diffrent openions is a normal and healthy which we all need to read to reflect and to reform.
finaly we meet in some points :
1- we all love our country.
2- we all should work hard to acheave development.
3- no one can be upset from such discution as he knows that all of us want the good for our country.

and i realy siad all what i can say in such issue _bas 3ashan mamotsh we fnefsy 7aga_ i want to recourd my reservations on the word _elly yo3ozo elbai ye7ram 3algame3_

so every one thank you and see you in another dabate
abdelrahman

Sabrine Assem

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 23, 2005 @ 06:51 AM

thanks injy soo much 4 ur reply - it's exactly wht i think - it's very important to stop this tone: muslims, nation of islam,...etc - we're excluding all the other groups and give the whole nation a religious identity without caring alot about others

dina moltazem

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 23, 2005 @ 07:50 AM

It seem that I am logging to the discussion a little late.
I am agreeing with ingy and nousha 100% and I am all along the debat seeing their opinion as the logic way of thinking.
Abdulrahman sence the beginning of the debat u are saying big word in supporting the other muslim but would u plz answer me "what would u practically want to do for palastine and iraq "would u give me living examples….any way i am really curious to know answer

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abdelrahman

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 23, 2005 @ 09:48 AM

to Ingy:
i totally disagree with u.
although respcting ur viewpoint ,i consider that it's away of truth. to be more spesific i'll talk in points :
1- PIRIORITY :
"there is something called "priority", I need to take care of my very inner surroudnings and then go for the wider one. This does not entail that I forget about the other Arabs...."

Ingy if u read what i wrote u will know what i mean with piriority. and whatever u said i still think that killing people in some ISLAMIC countries is more important that the ma3ashat in egypt.
"Those who would not get their rights in their country, can turn into a destructive force, most probably end up into a CIVIL WAR and then get also men and women killed"
please concantrate : i dont refuse working or getting interest to our internal issues but i have another piriorities than u. those men killed women rapped i cosider them as my family becouse my PROPHET said that " the muslims are brothers" i dont know what do u consider them ;perhaps not more same nationality or just they are arabs!!!
i dont think that careing about our internal issues -i think its all concerning poverty somehow-can prevent us from repaying the favour of such people who sacrifice their lives to try to get back our houner and dejenty.
every time i saies that we should work to help our country but if it comes to neglecting our duty -real islamic duty- to help those people. i'll stop and say they have the iriority rather than any other issue whatever it was.

2- "Why are you limiting your address to only "muslims"?? Are not the Chritsians at the first place, and the Jewish in the second place are sharing the same land- Arab Lands I mean- and same nationality with us????"

To be muslim thats means -IN THE FIRST REGARD- that you have aduty to help muslim people not only in iraq and phalastine but also in shishan, aphganistan,and in any place around the world. you cant say they are not arabs they are not of our nationality i am not oblieged to help them; its afavoure if i -coz they are humans- to help them ... you cont say that .
you saied that i execluded the non muslims and that is not true -i'll say y later on- but lets see how many muslims you execluded :you axecluded more than 1.5 billion muslims at least represinting mor than 1/5 of the word and because what?? coz we are arabs and they arenot!!!!whatis arabs do you know what is arabs? : they are the people talks arabic... then all what connect u to them is the languege,
i think its strange that the language prevails the releigion.
and then u talked about descrimination against non muslims and execloding them from my vision and that is realy strange coz not meaning that talking as muslims to execlud other nationalities Islam never contains discrimination against non muslims .it dont mean if we dealed as muslims that we neglect the other relegions. and if you heard Ameera sobaih talking about the programme of "life makers " of amr khaled she found non muslims in their team strugling for their country they realy know that Islam never decrease their right to work for their country.

dear ingy i belonge to Islam befor belonging to egypt before belonging to arabs if my nationality contasted with my relegion my religion will prevail. i do what i do becouse iam muslim wanting the to be accepted of my god ,
not for iam an arabian or what ever .and if you -nousha- doesnt like this tone simply dont.. but i advice to let you from the ARY race ..sorry the arab race and the nationality and some like ideas which basicly made to be away of the real essence of islam;and listen with me;
قال تعالى "واعتصموا بحبل الله جميعا ولا تفرقوا إن أكرمكم عند الله أتقاكم "

وقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم "لا فرق بين عربي ولا أعجمي إلى بالتقوى "
i think that from that we can understand that thert are no diffrance between arabian and other nationalities exept in the degree of relegion of the person and that we should collect togeather as muslims around our religion and not to be differant categories. and at the same time Allah saied
"لكم دينكم ولي دين" thats means that non muslims have all they rieghts to strugle for their faith and their thoughts.

3- as for the theory of concpiracies- and thanks for the ideom - i didn't realy talked about as an easy way to escape from giving answers but i think that rereading the facts around us make it vailed on not to stop and saying "oooh there are many bad concpiracies thats very bad world" but to be more awareness about what happend around us and to now that the enemis dont save efforts to weak us in various ways ... dear..its awar and the war doesn't know ideals and i beleave that this war in the first regard is directed against Islam its truth and it was said by Boush idont remember the words but allof us know that he said and i conclude with
قال تعالى:"قد بدت البغضاء من أفواههم وما تخفي صدورهم أكبر قد بينا لكم الآيات لعلكم تعقلون" صدق الله العظيم
thanks alot.
abdelrahman Mahmoud

Injy

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Re: our duty towards other arab countries
July 24, 2005 @ 01:41 AM

Well, Abdel Rahman, could you please do me a favour and spell my name correctly??
It is actually "Injy" with "J" and not with "G". Thanks a million ya fandem.
I would go with molto in her request for you to cite living examples of what you can practically do for Iraq and Palestine?
Thanks ya fandem,

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